| Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 07:00 pm |
It is unlikely that I would accept any help that came from the monkey's. Don't let my civility and good naturedness about this fool you into to thinking that I don't still dislike you avalon.
Well perhaps that is too strong of a statment, but none the less I don't approve of many things that your "monkies" have done. Your current actions I can accept as explained. However your implied cooperation with the SKP/fully affair has permanantly condemned you as a dishonorable person as far as I am concerned.
| Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 07:34 pm |
Thanks for the label Permanently condemned, oh no!!! *runs in fear and shame, gnashing his beard and beating his chest...smiling all the while and trying to hide it*
I wasnt playing at the time, and had been gone for well over a month. Im glad my complete lack of participation marks me permanently as dishonorable in your eyes, james. I honestly dont understand what issue you could possibly have with his actions, or my lack of participatoin . To my knowledge no rules were broken.
Assuming this is so and I am not wrong, who are you to tell any other player how they MUST play the game? Who are you to condemn them? Do you hear me condemning you as "dishonorable" for the way you play, despite my (until recently?) fundamental disagreements with you?
I see nothing 'dishonorable' about a player in any game devoting their time to conquering or otherwise defeating others, no more than I would find it dishonorable for a player in SC to spend all their money on buying vegetables, as I noted above. I wonder how you would react if I found such a player, and marked them forever as morally corrupt. That action would proabbly make as much sense to you as yours does to me at the moment.
There are many games devoted strictly to that purpose, and in fact, I think it forms the premise of most games.
I harbor no dislike for you or anyone else in the game. On the other hand, I feel no desire (well, litle desire, and the little I feel annoys me) to somehow justify myself to those who have decided for whatever reason that they "dislike" me.
We all have to do what we think is moral and intersting and useful. You, me, everyone. I am simply doing what I think will make everyone happier on the whole of it. I cannot do otherwise. Maybe someday youll change your mind, however unlikley that is and how unimportant it might be in the long run.
| Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 08:08 pm |
and as for this: Your current actions I can accept as explained.
You know what, ive got a confession to make. None of what I wrote to erehwon was true, not a word. No, really! I just like creating elaborate justifications, just as youve always suspected. It is so much fun, and the meainnigless effort and wasted time are things I love spare aplenty! My true, real, absolutely sincere reason was that I wanted to conquer your countries. Ive always coveted them as far superior to anything my feeble brain could produce, and so I made all that crap up above so I would look better when taking them over.
You actually thought I gave a crap about the game itself, the playerbase, game balance, or the overall fun of all involved? realism, mechanics, interaction, competition? Of course not. all I really cared about was you. youre the center and always have been.
Now. Assuming you buy that, wtf is wrong with that? The designers put a war button in the game. I may be wrong, but im pretty sure that they intended it to be used for "War." Novel concept, I know, but think about it a moment! Perhaps it is just a pretty red button to stare at. Gaze upon it. Marvel at its wondrous sheen. beautiful, yes beautiful!
And maybe tanks are only for parades.
But whether they are or not, neither I nor anyone else has an obligation to "explain" themselves to you or anyone else as long as we play the game legally. We can be nice, we can be mean - as long as we follow the terms and conditions dictated by w3c , not the ones you or any other player might have in mind. I dont have to explain myself to you, you dont have to explain yourself to me, and "norwegian elk" certainly didnt need your go-ahead to play the game how he wanted to either.
I cannot believe you can imply that such explanations are required and call ME the megalomaniac and dishonorable one -not that I am affixing either label to you. Again, I do not dislike you at all.
I did not ask for such justiication from anyone in the game, eve when they conquered my empire twice using a fatal bug in the game. The thought never crossed my mind until this thread, when I realized that there are people who might have done such a thing. I simply say what I think and did/do what I reason to be effective and give me what I want -which happens to be the fun for all.
On the other hand, if you feel that people playing a game owe you an explanation about legal in-game actions they take and must justify themslves to you -or to anyone at all- then I think you might not have a place in this or any other game. I also fear you have missed out on a lot of very easy-going and good-natured fun over the years. Jokes and laughing in-game backstabbing both have their place. The fact that the SimCitizens are merely pixels is what makes it all fun, decisions have no real gravity and nothing really matters unles we are deluded enough to give the magnetized bits of hard disk that make up this virtual world a life al their own.
So you nuke a city, a country, a planet. So what? Nobody REALLY gets hurt - which is what erehwon was trying to say when he started the thread.
I would appreciate it if you would 1) keep the name calling off the boards, and if you feel it is necessary, speal to me in private with any issues you might have. If I have offended you somehow, maybe we could work it out (though ive no idea HOW i might have done so, and never have understood) and 2) if youre going to toss around words like 'dishonorable' and 'forever' in connection with one another, try and back them up or at least explain your point of view. Try. I triple-dog-dare you.
(just dont stick your tongue to that flagpole!)
Icannot for the lfe of me understand the problems you have, and appear always have had , with me. I have tried very hard to explain myself when you demanded it, rather tahn asked it, and I have treid very hard to help you and even -dare i say it?- confort you in some ways. I think I give up.
Members of my federation have often been upset at your comments. The most ..hurtful..occaision was when you spoke of ciaran. They have often asked me to make an exception in your case, and to actively work to get you out fo the game.
I have refused their requests out of hand and continue to do so. This thread changes nothing.
perhaps this shows one of the deeper differences between our personalities.
Ive got to friggin stop posting. SO much pent up. oy.
I hope you feel better, and perhaps you should have some of that tea you said calms you down. Perhaps I should as well!!
| Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 11:36 pm |
Wait a second...using bugs is honorable, but playing by the rules (like SKP did) is dishonorable? I'm afraid I missed something. Maybe it was in Avalon's long posts which I don't have time to read anmore. =]
| Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 12:01 am |
Hymenland do you remember how you aquired hymyland IV and hymyland V, please dont talk of honour and the right thing to do you just go hold a grudge over something else.
| Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 01:18 am |
Yes I remember how I acquired those countries. Both parties in that loss, knew the risks.
In one case I was declared upon. The monkies even believe in killing off people that declare war on them. Middle kingdom was given ample opportunity to withdraw from that conflict. Several people attempted to secure peace regarding the matter. And I sent several peace treaties. Additionally I didn't fire first, I waited till he attacked me. Then I did whatever I could to survive. I can't be faulted for my actions in that campaign.
In the case of the syth, They knew the consequences of their actions at the time and chose to forge forward. But I know how onesided their story is because they take every opportunity they can to sell it to somebody. But I ain't getting into it. Suffice it to say these conflicts are completly different scenarios all together, than what the SKP/Fully incident was.
Avalon, it is a game, and I've stated my opinion. Just as you have yours. If you can't deal with my opinions, evaluate yourself. And for the record I didn't call you any names, I merely stated what I thought of your character. Additionally, Just because there are no specific rules against something doesn't mean you should do it. I know you understand this. Sure SKP broke no rules,but how is honorable to kick somebody while their down? I don't think you approved of his actions, but you failed to do the right thing. Avalon you may not have been around, or given any specific permission regarding the SKP/Fully affair, but your continued association with SKP after the fact is in my opinion not a particulary honorable thing to do.
And in all fairness I did get carried away, you could redeem yourself. I don't really consider the dishonor to be permanent. And I don't have any problem with your interpretations of the game. And truth be told be told I probably don't even dislike you. And I suspect we would get along better in real life, than we do in this silly little game. I still don't know why I don't just quit, but knowing the monkey's hate me so, makes me wanna stay even if I get beaten down a hundred times.
| Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 01:36 am |
I see. I got a bit carried away as well, and apologize. It just seems that no matter what I do or say, you always 'had it in for me.'
No, kicking someone when theyre down isnt very nice. When it happened to me, I reacted very strongly on one planet. But neither is it illegal, and it doesnt need to be morally explained or justified.
Ian's fed should have supported him a lot more. Elk was only one player, and could have been stopped if a bit more dediction were in hand. If something like that had happened to a monkey, world war would have happened much sooner.
It is ironic that the war limits were the thing most largley responsible for his failure to retake and keep his country.
If I had been around, I would have tried to stop SKP, although I would not have been against a war in other circumstances at all. It might even have lead to civil war within the monkeys, and I guess we will never know what would have happened. But I dont think that either elk or myself are required to morally justify our actions, so long as they are legal.
I bet he is reading this, and will probably post on TNN shortly.
I still don't know why I don't just quit, but knowing the monkey's hate me so, makes me wanna stay even if I get beaten down a hundred times
Although it might seem somehwat twisted, I think this is part of what gams should be about - vendettas, enemies, and strife. You are someone many of my allies love to hate, and the reverse seems true as well. More power to both of you, and may the results be intersting to all. I think it keeps people on both sides interested, engaged, focused, learning, and even usually having fun.
Erehwon is preparing to fight back, and he has a small window of time when he might not only defend himself, but forgeo the effort and turn the tide against us. I await this time excitedly.
| Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 01:40 am |
and oh The monkies even believe in killing off people that declare war on them.
my policy is not to do so unless we had already planned to conquer them. In most current cases, countries that declareed on us will be unmolested when they either pose no threat and have been pounded into submission, or we cant hurt them.
ive offered loads of peace treaties to those countries most vulnerable and hardest hit. You arent one of them, but we had planned to take 2 of your countries from day 1.
| Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 04:27 am |
Hymy again with this syth stuff , im not entirely sure why you always want to bring the syth up we did nothing wrong in kb you wernt even a target but as soon as one of its members came ta gr you all seemed ta focus on him , please explain > :/