| Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 09:44 am |
Just a quick query.
Is immigration actually implemented?.
Ive been having a look at population structures in the age ranges of immigrants. And there seems to be no correlation between welfare (or any of the factors involved in welfare) and the increase in these age ranges.
Just curious, because the documentation says its implemented, but i havent been able to spot it when looking properely.
| Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 07:24 pm |
From game news septemper 19th, is this already working, and im just not seeing it??
__34. Migration fixed and re-introduced
Migration is now fixed and will be added to the game early next week. Migration involves groups in the population who are leaving their countries and moving to other countries.
This should be taken seriously as people are probably the most important assets for countries. Shortage of workers is a major factor in the limitation of growth and although immigration may create higher need for education, health etc., a large population is essential for a strong economy, army and a high rating in the game.
People migrate between countries in search for better conditions. The probability for migration is available in the game and expressed in the migration index. The migration index is a compilation of several indexes and it is important to follow that index and try to improve it.
The migration index depends on the welfare index, on the business index and on the payments to social security receivers. We are looking into this formula and we will add some more dependency on the employment index, which is represented in the welfare index but may not be prominent enough. The welfare index is a compilation of employment, health, education, social security etc. The business index depends on the level of production in the country.
Countries that are in very bad shape and their migration index is lower than 26, will see some of their population leaving the country. The rate is 0.0003 of the population per game month is the migration index is lower than 26, the rate is 0.0006 of the population per game month is the migration index is lower than 18 and 0.001 if the migration index is lower than 11.
The migrating people are in the age groups 30-34, 35-39 and 40-44. Migrants leave with their families and 50% of the total are kids in the age groups 0-17.
The migration benefits countries with a high migration index. They will receive up to 1% of their current populations in new immigrants per game month. The exact number depends on the number of emigrating people and may be lower. There are 3 levels of immigration. Countries receive one group if their migration index is between 55 and 70. They receive a double that number of immigrants if their migration index is between 70 and 85 and they receive three times that number if their migration index is higher than 85. We will follow the numbers after introduction and may tune these values.
The numbers per group depend on the number of emigrants leaving their countries and the number of countries and their migration indexes who are receiving these immigrants.
This function will be installed during the next week or the following week.
| Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 09:24 pm |
Elle, I think it has been implented. If I undersatnd thigns correctly, the numbers they chose were just not quite right to exhibit noticeable effects. If jozi is reading this, I have a few suggestions.
1)Increase the threshold of migration. Almost no countries have migration indices as low as 26 (I will try to build one, and see how low I can get the index. C3s are the countries that will need to have low indices) It is almost impossible to have such a low index (unless the index is computed differently then when last I looked) As such, almost nobody will end up migrating out of a country
consider increasing all of the migration thresholds by double their current values. The % of population which migrates is fine, but the indices simply arent low enough to be important atm.
2) Counntries with high population should have emigrants. Population density eventually gets critical in the real world, and after this occurs, people leave. countries with more than a sert number of people (perhaps 30M) should lose population both to reduced birthrates and to emigration. Some of the bigger players might hate me for the idea , but I think it is for the best. It keeps teh game more competitive as well as being more realistic.
Of course, these countries could have huge imigration indices which permitted them to reach even larger populations (more people migrate into the country then emigrate from it), but this should not be easy, and it should get harder and harder as population increases!
| Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 10:08 pm |
agreed harder to get immigrants with high pop
but i already have emigrants at 180 welfare ... pop dropping fast ..oh well nm ;p
| Friday, December 19, 2003 - 01:02 am |
Not sure I agree with your assertion about population density and emigration in the real world, Matt. It may be simplistic to put it terms of SimCountry, but relatively high unemployment and relatively low wages are much larger direct inputs to emigration than is population density. Or to put it another way, people go where they can work and make money.
Granted, that is chiefly seen in population movements within countries and less so between countries. But the effect is still there and many examples in the real world are evident.
Of course, the migration of people away from war and havoc is also a factor. Wonder if that can and should be included in SC.
| Friday, December 19, 2003 - 05:04 am |
Of course, there's a point where reality must stop and the game must begin -- being the president of a real-life third world nation is a frustrating (understatement) job, and it's not easy to keep newbies in the position. That is, there must be some factor to allow new presidents to quickly gain population.
| Friday, December 19, 2003 - 05:25 am |
For newbie Presidents the problem isn't a small population in general, but a lack of college-educated population.
| Friday, December 19, 2003 - 09:10 am |
"Of course, there's a point where reality must stop and the game must begin -- being the president of a real-life third world nation is a frustrating (understatement) job, and it's not easy to keep newbies in the position. That is, there must be some factor to allow new presidents to quickly gain populatiion"
id say you make it easier for low populations to gain population than high pop countries.
Of course if they have built a country upto say 30M then they arent a newbie by any means, and if their living conditions suck and they lose pop..their own fault
| Friday, December 19, 2003 - 10:28 am |
That is, there must be some factor to allow new presidents to quickly gain population.
Wait for my TNN article I think ive got a good idea here.
Matt, youre right. One of the things that has always bugged me is that salaries dont seem to modify the immigration index much or at all directly. Ia lso hate to see minimum governemtns salaries in countries with huge private sector salaries
Nevertheless, when popualtion density reaches a certain point in the real world, local resources cannot support the population. People begin to leave. Overcrowding, pure and simple, is also an issue. Without modeling reources directly, SC could model the movements of people that derive from it.
This said, even a very densely poulated developed country coudls till attrac many people if the conditions were right. That is what I meant by large countries attractinvg huge numbers of people at the same time as some begin to emigrate.
This is all incidental, though. The main point is that the immigration index numbers chosen were wrong (in my humble opinion)