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Archive through November 18, 2008

Simcountry: Simcountry Bulletin Board  Archive through November 18, 2008

Klarina Espinosa (Kebir Blue)

Monday, November 17, 2008 - 08:38 pm Click here to edit this post

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Klarina, do you really trust the news to tell you the full story, including all the history? If so, you are naive.

Do you every hear about the almost daily attacks from the Palestinians? The thousands of rockets? The stabbings? The bombings? The rampages? The stonings?




Yes, actually, I do. But then, the BBC is world renound for being less than biased in such things.

Your argument defers from the point entirely, valid as it may be in your eyes. I'm well aware of what the Palestinian militias do in terms of attack. But that is beside the point, given I'm talking about not just these vile murderers, but also innocent Palestinian civilians who are often deliberately punished for such attacks by decree of the Israeli government. What disgusts me is the indiscriminate retaliation against these civilians. The oppression of all Palestinians because of what a few have done. Not all of them are terrorists, but they are all made to suffer in the name of retaliation thinly veiled as "justice."


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Have you ever lived in a country that psychologically feels like it is at war every second for 60 years? I can't begin to tell you how weird it feels to ride a bus in a country where buses are being blown up weekly.




Yes, I have. And I still do. The country I live in has existed under the near-constant threat of IRA attack for the best part of the 20th century.

Bombs and guns, my friend. Israel and Palestine could learn a thing or two from such progress, if only one were willing to stop killing the other. But, alas, it seems both have a fondness for the race-hatred they hold for oneanother.


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Who could negotiate with those who wish you dead and only lack the means to do it?




I refer you back to the IRA.


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By the way, did you know Israel could get a US made system that could stop the rockets in mid air? The reason why they are not deployed is because there is a reasonable chance that some of the projectiles fired at the missiles would land in Gaza and could hurt someone. Real indiscriminate.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/sep/06/israel
Even the Israeli soldiers admit to the indiscriminate killings.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4022411.stm
They even target non-Palestinians. Note the account of indiscriminate shootings.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-dart-shells-kill-family-of-palestinians-641391.html
Note, "The flechettes are designed to kill and maim armed men on the ground. You only have to examine their effect on a tree - they can scythe clean through an inch-thick branch - to appreciate their deadliness. But late on Wednesday night - not for the first time in this 23-month conflict - they were used by Israel against Palestinian civilians to fatal and indiscriminate effect."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5215366.stm
Killing UN observers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7722948.stm
The deliberate blockading of food aid to Palestinain civilians. In the eyes of International Law, this and other Israeli actions violate Articles 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 22, 25, 28 and 30 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights at the very least.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/bbc-staff-are-told-not-to-call-israeli-killings-assassination-664485.html
And Israel seems to feel strongly enough about it to try and censor the BBC.

Need I go on?


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Anyway, the point I am trying to get at is that you are in no position to judge when you do not look at both sides of the issues. The situation in the region is much much more complex than Israel is the big bully.




Oh, but I am in the position to judge. I have looked at both sides of the argument, and I'm well aware of how complex the issue is. Israel has every right to defend it's borders. What it doesn't have the right to do - and what it has continually done since it's inception - is to encroach on the land of the Palestinian civilians, to steal what land was left to them after Israel's original borders were set out. Israel doesn't have the right to deny these people their human rights, regardless of what some of them may have done. No right to deny them food, water, electricity, security. Israel does all of these things. Israel's problems are caused, in part, by it's own refusal to remain inside the borders allotted to it when it was created. It's continued refusal to do anything that isn't entirely to it's own advantage. Israel will never have peace because it is entirely unwilling to compromise.

I seem to recall another nation which did very much the same once, with little regard for the wellbeing of some of the peoples it enveloped as a result.


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I wonder if you ever read about that in the newspapers you read?




Who mentioned just newspapers? I'm talking BBC reports, UN reports, Amnesty reports, EU reports. Information which has, in the past, given the story from many different viewpoints.

No, I do not base my thoughts upon the ramblings of one or two newspaper reporters. I base it on the reports of international governments, sound media sources, international human rights capmaigns, independant inquiries.

I wouldn't deny Israel the right to defend itself. Nor would I deny the Palestinians the right to do the same.

What gives Israel the right to deny even the innocent Palestinians their basic human dignities and rights, and then claim to be the sole victim in all of this?

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