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Chat Log, Jozi Chat, 5th of July

Simcountry: Simcountry Bulletin Board  Chat Log, Jozi Chat, 5th of July

John R

Saturday, July 5, 2008 - 07:54 pm Click here to edit this post
Attaching Chat Log, Jozi Chat, 5th of July to IRC Chat with Jozi - 5th of July.

[15:20] Claws: wouldn't be a jozi chat without your request for trains :)
[15:21] Claws: gotta go but will be back later
[15:21] * Claws waves
[15:21] Laguna: http://img249.../
[15:21] Laguna: Isn't this intriguing...
[15:22] KevinHenry: lol....thats my bird
[15:22] Laguna: haha
[15:22] KevinHenry: he can also undo bras
[15:22] Quastar: isn't that you, Laguna, in disguise?!
[15:22] Quastar: :P
[15:22] Laguna: From what Kevin said, there's little doubt remaining. :P
[15:22] KevinHenry: lol
[15:25] Manny: shouldn't we keep this channel "clean" and discuss all the bird stuff on the other channel ?
[15:26] Laguna: It wouldn't last long... Our souls are tainted.
[15:27] * KevinHenry grabs soap and water and begins washing the dirty channel
[15:28] * Laguna helps Kevin
[15:34] Laguna: Hey!!! They have a eat the popcorn smiley in CN
[15:34] Laguna:
[15:34] Laguna: Evil demons
[15:34] Laguna invited Yankee into the channel.
[15:34] * Joins: Yankee (iamcaaloon@
[15:36] Manny: whats the ETA on Jozi status ?
[15:44] * Joins: Treasurer (hillybilly@
[15:48] Jozi: hi everyone
[15:48] Yankee: Hello Jozi
[15:50] Laguna: Should we start? And who wants to go first?
[15:50] Yankee: me
[15:50] * Joins: WildEyes (wild_eyes@
[15:50] Laguna: Very well
[15:50] * Laguna sets mode: +m
[15:50] * Laguna sets mode: +v Jozi
[15:50] Laguna: Just sat done when you are finished talking.
[15:51] Laguna: If someone doesn't agree with what is said, wait until finished and PM me.
[15:51] Laguna invited Xanyon into the channel.
[15:51] * Laguna sets mode: +v Yankee
[15:52] Yankee: Morning Jozi .. Quality how come when a country buys quality goods they not only PAY more but use more? In my humble opinion it should be the other way around if you want to encourage the common market?
[15:52] Yankee: The same goes for corporation supplies
[15:52] Jozi: Pay more yes. Use more? we did not any such feature.
[15:53] Yankee: No you never added it .. and at one time it was addressed however it's back
[15:53] * Joins: Xanyon (luke.mehdi@
[15:54] Yankee: if I have 70 Water treatment plants and buy at 100 quality I use 70 per month .. if I buy at 150 quality the monthy use goes up
[15:54] Yankee: same with ammunition
[15:54] Jozi: never heard such a complaint before.
[15:54] Yankee: so I can only assume it's that way across the board
[15:54] Yankee: I had it along time ago and yes it was addressed but it's also been back for awhile
[15:54] Jozi: If you say so, we will look into it. I need a simple example if possible.
[15:55] Yankee: the water treatment plants in a country is the easiest to spot
[15:56] Yankee: the rest you have to watch consumption go down as quality goes down
[15:56] Yankee: or visa versa
[15:57] Jozi: what quality does is to add slightly to the welfare of the country and that in turn, has a positive influence on corporations etc. We should make that effect stronger and encourage high quality.
[15:57] Jozi: I will have someone look into it as such effects are 100% not part of the game and should never happen. it does not make sense.
[15:57] Jozi: done
[15:57] Yankee: yes I agree .. maybe using LESS for high quality items would be a start
[15:57] Yankee: done
[15:58] * Laguna sets mode: -v Yankee
[15:58] * Laguna sets mode: +v Manny
[15:58] Manny: Hi !
[15:58] Manny: first, I want to say that Amsterdam is a wonderful city
[15:59] Manny: and it was sad we couldn't meet in February
[15:59] Jozi: I cannot see how it happens. It is not even easy to do if we wanted it. I would like to keep it at the same quantities and have a more pronounced influence on the welfare.
[15:59] Jozi: done
[15:59] Manny: okay, now that is done, my intervention will be quite short
[15:59] Manny: I have 2 questions
[15:59] Manny: First question :
[15:59] Jozi: Amsterdam is great, but we tend to keep business and private matters separated.
[16:00] Laguna: You do well.
[16:00] Manny: In March 2004 (or 2005), you promised that trains would be implemented. You re-stated that trains would take 5 minutes to add to the game. I then suggest a re-haul of the transportation system, and conversion to logistics, so we can add airports and sea ports, with cargos, etc. What is the update on this ?
[16:01] Manny: done
[16:02] Laguna: chooo! choooo!!
[16:02] Tamara: chooooo chooooo ---- sorry couldn't help myself :P
[16:02] Laguna: hahaha
[16:02] Jozi: Unfortunatelly, we had too many priorities and too many of the very high. So we have spend very long time on the war game and many more features. If I look at what people are looking for in the game, than there might be 10 more who would lover the trains game and
[16:03] Jozi: probably 2000 more who would like to have a better communication (chat) system in the game. so we have to make tough choices.
[16:03] Jozi: done
[16:03] Manny: you also said that you would add an environment index to the game
[16:03] Manny: trains are do much more to the environment, than trucks, less pollutions
[16:03] * Joins: Man_of_Peace (chatzilla@
[16:03] Manny: rail transportation is recognized as "green"
[16:04] Jozi: Not only that. We have nearly finished all kinds of green energy, ethanol from sugar or corn, nuclear enery and pollution level for each type of corporations. These features are moving forward and we would like to see them in the game ASAP.
[16:05] Manny: also, since there have been traintracks in the game since the very beginning, how would it hurt you to add trains, if it takes 5 minutes to do so. It's just logic. train tracks need trains. Otherwise why do we have train tracks and why are millions spent on their maintenance ?
[16:05] Manny: done
[16:05] Jozi: great poin Manny I am sure trains will be added and you are the best person to make sure they remain on the agenda.
[16:06] Jozi: done
[16:06] Manny: i left the game, im only here today because i wanted to ask about the trains
[16:06] Manny: now my second question
[16:06] Jozi: I thought you forgot about us.
[16:06] Jozi: forgot that is
[16:07] Manny: it took nearly 3 years (since summer 2005) to fully implement the war engine (and im not even sure its completed).
[16:07] Manny: can you outline the development plan in the short-term (until 2009)
[16:07] Manny: since the development plan on the site is outdated
[16:07] Manny: please and done
[16:09] Jozi: There list is very long and detailed. There are huge numbers of small requests and bug fixes that result from the voting system. We would like to start solving some of them faster and have several such issues resolved each week.
[16:09] Manny: perhaps outline the main ones
[16:10] Jozi: At the same time, we think that communication is essential and will add a much better chat system that integrates with the game. This means direct contact with players who are logged on
[16:10] Manny: there are many features that are half-done in the game (income tax, budget, disasters, etc)
[16:10] Jozi: (if they allow it)
[16:10] Manny: are these part of your plan
[16:10] * Laguna adds "Introduce Trains" to such an agenda
[16:10] Jozi: and chat rooms for federations etc.
[16:10] Laguna: Ah... Jozi knows what he speaks. ; )
[16:10] Jozi: We also promissed a blog. This will be very soon.
[16:10] Manny: what is this blog ?
[16:11] Laguna: The sooner we expand beyond Dunbar's number, the better.
[16:11] Jozi: Every player will have a personal blog that is integrated with the game but also available outside the game.
[16:12] Jozi: you will be able to have frinds post comments and become members while they do not play simcountry.
[16:12] Jozi: there is your own URL for the blog and it is fully installed once you completed your registration.
[16:12] Jozi: there are tens of smaller features, including better transportation.
[16:12] Jozi: done
[16:13] Manny: i dont see what that adds to the game, or how it is benefitial compared to trains, the environment index, and green technology
[16:13] Manny: and also adding marketing, R&D, and transportation costs to corporations
[16:13] * Joins: Dizzy (
[16:14] Jozi: we think that the communication is one of the main reasons people login.
[16:14] Laguna: Nothing makes me log in like a train joke.
[16:14] Jozi: I agree that there are featrues to complete and marketing and R&D in corporations are included. This is where we will spend most of the time.
[16:15] Manny: and can you spend 5 minutes to add trains ?
[16:15] Jozi: None of these features requires a major change in the game and none is even close to any of the features we needed for the war game.
[16:15] Jozi: done
[16:15] Jozi: I trhought we have covered that already. done
[16:16] Manny: okay thank you Jozi.
[16:16] * Laguna sets mode: -v Manny
[16:16] * Quits: Manny (chatzilla@ (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906])
[16:16] Laguna: Chooo! Chooo!
[16:16] Tamara: all aboard, the train is about to leave the channel
[16:16] Laguna: Regarding the bug Yankee mentioned about quality supplies for countries:
[16:16] Laguna: [15:59] Yankee: tell him when it was addressed last time It was a math error that had been in the game a long time and it came back with the war engine update
[16:17] Laguna: Moving on...
[16:17] * Laguna sets mode: +v WildEyes
[16:17] WildEyes: THanks, Laguna, and thanks for being here again Jozi :)
[16:18] * Joins: justspock (webclient@
[16:18] * Joins: Thee_Q (wild_eyes@
[16:18] Laguna: O.o
[16:18] * Laguna sets mode: +v Thee_Q
[16:18] * Thee_Q is now known as Wild_Eyes
[16:19] * WildEyes was kicked by Laguna (Laguna)
[16:19] Wild_Eyes: that figures, lol
[16:19] Wild_Eyes: crappy router
[16:19] Wild_Eyes: I have a bit of a novel prepared for you, Jozi, lol :P
[16:19] Wild_Eyes: I would like to ask you to take another look at auto salary reductions in corps; specifically the reductions that occur because 'the corp is in debt and isn't making a profit.' It's very easy now for overall profitable corporations to start having reductions when they take out a simple 20b loan, even when their cash is high, and salaries start being reduced simply because the market is having a bad month or they didn't sell production that month. If nec
[16:19] Wild_Eyes: My point is, skilled players have an integrated economic plan, and it's a pain to have to check for debt every day, especially on LU, when you run large empires. This also makes high-risk corporations like Aircraft fuel, which have a very high profit potential almost too much of a pain to run.
[16:19] Wild_Eyes: I've elaborated about this on the forum, and can email you in depth if you'd like, but it would take far too much time to list every example where this disrupts various aspects of the economy in countries.
[16:19] Wild_Eyes: My first choice would be a toggle in the automatic systems where players can just turn it off, but Tom shot that down on the forum. Maybe you could get it changed so that the determining factor is yearly income, or income over a few years before salaries start going in. After all, in real life a company wouldn't slash salaries after a month of loss, or even a quarter of loss. They would look at the long term picture.
[16:19] Wild_Eyes: I know this would save the tradiationally very stable and solid corps like oil, fmu, electric, etc, from seeing salary reductions when they have a random month of loss. This would also make it easier to manage the debt for higher risk corporations.
[16:19] Wild_Eyes: thanks for your consideration
[16:20] Laguna: Can't we have a summary? O,o
[16:20] Jozi: wow. give me a minute.
[16:20] Wild_Eyes: last two then :P
[16:20] * Joins: wendy1 (wendysun52@
[16:20] Wild_Eyes: the first three are preface... I'm verbose :(
[16:21] Wild_Eyes: when I'm back up for my other questions, they're MUCH shorter hehe :P i swear
[16:21] Jozi: We are not looking at last month loss only.
[16:22] Jozi: we look at the previous 12 months. I will have another look and make sure it is this month, this year and last year.
[16:23] Jozi: the reason for that is that many players were losing money big time because they were told that high salaries are good for them.
[16:23] Jozi: they ended up with very large loans. They desparated and left.
[16:23] Jozi: If we let them turn it off they will and we will be back in square 1.
[16:24] Jozi: I will make sure that it is more selective, specially for more experienced players.
[16:24] Jozi: done
[16:24] Wild_Eyes: done also. Thanks for the answer :)
[16:24] Wild_Eyes: i'll run some experements
[16:24] * Parts: Dizzy (
[16:24] * Laguna sets mode: -v Wild_Eyes
[16:25] * Laguna slaps Tamara with some tuna
[16:25] Jozi: I will have it tuned this week. It will be installed on Tuesday or next Tuesday.
[16:25] Laguna: Don't get carried way with the promises now... :p
[16:25] * Laguna sets mode: +v justspock
[16:26] justspock: ok. my request is simple
[16:26] * Joins: Daconia (ami@
[16:26] Jozi: This is a very simple functions and the numbers and conditions can be tuned very easily. so there.
[16:26] justspock: allow the pending limit to be raise to the level of profit
[16:27] -: -Daconia- Hello, Daconia.
[16:27] Laguna: raise
[16:27] Jozi: pending limit? you lost me.
[16:27] Laguna: I can't see those characters
[16:27] justspock: i mean you do not epxect
[16:27] justspock: soory
[16:27] justspock: the 750B
[16:27] justspock: per month limit
[16:27] Laguna: What Spock is asking for is that spending limits should be increased.
[16:27] justspock: incase my country wants to buy more stuff
[16:28] justspock: or more weapons
[16:28] Laguna: Or rather, their recovery, based on the economic perfomance of the country, should have a greater effect.
[16:28] * Wild_Eyes is now known as WildEyes
[16:28] justspock: is a country has 80mil people, they buy more stuff than country with 5mil peep
[16:29] Jozi: This is a funny coincidence. I just updated limits this morning but did not come across any 750B. I have all the numbers in memory as it was three hours ago.
[16:29] Laguna: Spending Limit for the Army is 750B.
[16:29] justspock: mil spending limit is 750B and regular 500B its too low
[16:29] Laguna: Were you increasing for Full members or Trial members?
[16:30] Jozi: I have increased max spending and max mil. spending from 150B to 250B per month. min spending limits from 8B to 50B per month. and left the maxmax limit which is the accumulation of the spending space if you do not use it at 400 and 500 B
[16:31] Laguna: Check Liberal Re.. on KB 750.00B SC$ boost
[16:31] Jozi: we had many questions on this and promissed to fix.
[16:31] Laguna: Are we on the same wave? lol
[16:31] Jozi: all this is without using a booster. It will probably decrease the need for boosters.
[16:32] * Laguna uses a booster on Liberal Republic
[16:32] justspock: ii am spedning GC to Boost spending spce every time i log in but even with booster, i could only boost once. can we have at least unlimited boosting
[16:32] Laguna: For 1 GC you can boost the Military Spending Space of Liberal Republic on Kebir Blue from 750.00B SC$ to 1.35T SC$.
[16:33] Jozi: Oh. I did not change the booster. Just the spending space you get anyway. It is higher now and grows faster.
[16:34] Laguna: Good.
[16:34] Laguna: And what's its limit?
[16:34] Jozi: so where does this 750B comes from?
[16:34] Laguna: It was the limit on military spending space
[16:34] Jozi: if this on FB?
[16:34] Laguna: KB
[16:34] Laguna: Limits and the same across all worlds
[16:34] Jozi: sorry. he said it before.
[16:35] Laguna: are the*
[16:35] justspock: can you increase the limits more?
[16:35] Jozi: wait. I need to check a property.
[16:35] justspock: your need to stimulate the economy ;)
[16:36] * Laguna gets something to eat
[16:36] Laguna: Take five people...
[16:37] Jozi: OK. There is a factor of 1.5 for full members. so it is 750. This is the maxmax I did not change. I have no problem increasing it a bit. making it unlimited will cause huge weapons purchases and we will be back to the time we have millions of weapons.
[16:37] Jozi: do we want that back?
[16:37] Jozi: done
[16:39] Laguna: So, the limit on military spending for Full Members is still 750B?
[16:40] * Laguna looks at the queue...
[16:40] Laguna: How many hours do we have left of convo?
[16:40] Jozi: It is not 1050B on all worlds. This is for full members. For beginners, it is now 700B
[16:40] Jozi: it is now i mean
[16:40] Laguna: Okay. That's fine by me.
[16:40] * Laguna sets mode: +v Yankee
[16:40] * Laguna sets mode: -v justspock
[16:40] Yankee: I've never logged in to see a train ... Air defense response one single responding air unit is simply not adequate you can still strip a country of air defense very easily yet air defense should be able to blunt or even stop an attack if it's strong enough. And right now unless there are NO responding units in a country under attack fed air defense doesn't work at all ... one responding unit from each fed member in range for each attack would be a big imp
[16:40] Jozi: plenty of time. I planned on two hours.
[16:42] Jozi: you mean air defense unit with interceptors or helicopters does nothing?
[16:42] Yankee: only one unit responds
[16:42] Yankee: so 400 ints against up to 2000 fighters
[16:42] Jozi: that is true and only one unit attacks.
[16:43] Yankee: and fighters as everyone should know can be shielded so a country can have it's air defense stripped easily
[16:43] Yankee: if one unit from each fed member would respond to each attack that would help
[16:44] Yankee: fed member in range
[16:45] Yankee: when 1000 fighters can kill 120,000 interceptors there is definetly something wrong
[16:45] Yankee: or can strip a country of 120,000 I should say in multiple attacks
[16:46] Jozi: I will have some tests done this week. If the number is too low, we can increase the max number of interceptors in a single defense unit. or we can reduce the max number of fighters. The fed help is nice if you have them, and within range. If not, you should be able to defend yourself anyway.
[16:46] Jozi: I am surprised that this did not come up in force before.
[16:46] Yankee: well I can tell you exactly how to strip a country of it's airforce .. I've been doing it for years
[16:47] Yankee: and right now air defense is useless against someone that knows how
[16:47] Yankee: I still think a federation should put "something" into each attack if it's in range
[16:47] Yankee: done
[16:47] Jozi: Thank for the info. We will quickly test and tune. done
[16:48] * Laguna sets mode: -v Yankee
[16:48] * Joins: Tholan (webclient@
[16:49] * Laguna sets mode: +v KevinHenry
[16:49] KevinHenry: Jozi, i just wanted to add that I beleive the fed air defense does work
[16:50] KevinHenry: it increases the int response from 400 to 800
[16:50] KevinHenry: i occurred in a recent LU war
[16:50] KevinHenry: done
[16:50] Laguna: I'll clear this matter later on, if I must. In the meantime:
[16:50] Laguna: Tamara has a suggestion for Cash Markets
[16:50] Jozi: It does but only one wing is chozen. The most powerfull one and that changes if they suffer losses.
[16:50] * Laguna sets mode: -v KevinHenry
[16:50] Jozi: done
[16:51] Tamara: I thought I might just add my 2 cents worth on something that people have been mentioning
[16:51] Tamara: It refers to the cash market, a lot of players seem to be complaining about financial fees and your response has been to lower cash however as many have pointed out this is very time consuming.
[16:51] Tamara: I know you have discussed player shops are something you are looking at but I worry that perhaps the major issue is that for players to reduce cash reserves is very time consuming and requires a lot of micromanagement.
[16:51] Tamara: I have always maintained that the best features of Simcountry are the ones that reduce the micromanagement or aspects of the game that have no fun aspects, for example auto upgrades and trailing quality trade strategies. I shudder to think about how we survived without them.
[16:51] Tamara: To the point now I wanted to propose that the next step with the common market is to make it more like the way real markets work. The coding probably mostly exists in your trading of all other game products.
[16:51] Tamara: My suggestion, instead of people bidding for coins and having to check to see if they are still winning every 2 seconds a real market the people would be able to just put in a order to buy coins at X price. Likewise Sellers offers coins for Y price. All the buy and sell orders are kept and when the prices match them they go through.
[16:51] Tamara: This achieves 2 things, it will allow the prices to reflect the market in better terms as everybody is competing with each other and secondly it removes the micromanagement from it all.
[16:51] Tamara: If someone has 100T they want to sell they can offer to buy 100 coins @ 1T per coin. Then all the people offering coins under 1T go through, obviously in order from the cheapest to the most expensive at the price they offered.
[16:51] Tamara: A quick example would be there are 25 coins offered at 700B each, 25 coins offered at 800B a piece, 25 coins offered at 1T each and 25 coins offered at 1.2T each. The person offers to buy 100 coins @ 1T.
[16:51] Tamara: The orders that go through are 25 @ 700B, 25 @ 800B and 25@ 1T. Then there is also still an offer left on the market to buy another 25 @ 1T. The 1.2T offer to sell coins still remains as the orders donât match, and remains in place until they get the price of their order or they retract the offer.
[16:52] Tamara: Summary, less micromanagement, ability to shift large sums of money easier, more realistic market, and most of the coding already exists in the game and it keeps it simple. Not too mention there is no waiting, once the offers match you get the money.
[16:52] Tamara: I tried to simplify it as much as possible
[16:52] Laguna: [16:52] Tamara: Summary, less micromanagement, ability to shift large sums of money easier, more realistic market, and most of the coding already exists in the game and it keeps it simple. Not too mention there is no waiting, once the offers match you get the money.
[16:52] Tamara: done
[16:54] * Laguna pokes Jozi and gets some cake
[16:55] Jozi: I will get some cake too.
[16:55] Laguna: mmmm How about introducing cake corps along with trains?
[16:56] Laguna: Then we can sell cakes in trains.
[16:56] Jozi: James. Good to hear from you. I agree. The suggestion is very good but a market is not simple to add and we had an alternative that will probably have the same effect. This is part of our plan for some time.
[16:57] Jozi: we would like to add a direct exchange market on the portal and allow anyone to offer any product, money or gold coins.
[16:58] Jozi: Buyers will select a product and will find all the offers with their quantities and price.
[16:58] Jozi: They can purchase directly. They can select only the cheapest ones or many of them and the transfer is immediate.
[16:58] Jozi: this will include weapons and other products too.
[16:59] Jozi: money will be transferred from the country to the account on the portal and can be used.
[16:59] Jozi: done
[16:59] Tamara: only thing with that is possible micromanagement for the buyers
[17:00] Jozi: depends how it is implemented. If you put all offers with check boxes than it becomes easier.
[17:00] Jozi: gone are the days when you needed to do each corporation loand separately etc.
[17:00] Tamara: if they have to trall through individual offers and what if there is currently nothing cheap enough for them, I feel they should be able to put an offer in to buy at X price too
[17:01] Tamara: that way its 1 action required on both sides of the fence and removes alot of the time requirements of selling players game money
[17:02] Laguna: We better clear some bricks on that wall, cuz I ain't liking its looks.
[17:02] Jozi: True but the market is not as quick as direct buying as I described. The implementation is simpler, mainly because it add many other features at the same time, including exchange of products, directly, even between worlds, with or without a delay.
[17:03] Tamara: but anyway just my thoughts, I feel that to improve on the current system it needs to all bulk sales without requiring loads of time
[17:03] Laguna: See, that's the bad thing... No trading between worlds!
[17:03] Laguna: Not now or ever! Just opens too many doors that you'll eventually have to close.
[17:03] Tamara: *needs to allow
[17:04] Laguna: Oh yeah... removing delay from all products was a rather nice measure. lol Don't know why we still have that column on products though.
[17:05] Jozi: trade between worlds is indeed a complex issue that we must understand before we add. But the feature will allow quick trading of goods and money and gold coins for cash.
[17:06] Laguna: That's all good and fine, but when you say goods, you mean products and... Who would exchange products between worlds?
[17:06] Jozi: If we want to implement a market, that there are many markets we need. not very easy and makes the whole thing more complex.
[17:06] Jozi: If we allow the exchange of goods between worlds, it will have many consequences. Some we have not looked into yet.
[17:07] Laguna: Someone we better not even look into and simply don't allow it.
[17:07] Jozi: shortages are not always the same everywhere and the price is not the same.
[17:07] Laguna: Some*
[17:07] Laguna: Let us spare ourselves some headches and move on...
[17:07] Laguna: errr... done.
[17:08] Jozi: James? how do you see that market?
[17:08] Laguna: James as a pirate. We'll say "yes, more $$$". :P
[17:10] Jozi: Thanks for the cake Laguna. your idea
[17:10] Tamara: perhaps I will put something together and email it to you
[17:10] Jozi: Thanks
[17:10] Tamara: I saw it more so for population and game money as opposed to other world products
[17:10] * Laguna sets mode: +v Xanyon
[17:10] Xanyon: i got 2 quick ones: firstly would it be possible to have ticker tapes with information on the country main page such as exists on LU in countries on all the worlds
[17:10] Xanyon: secondly, would it be possible to define parameters required by a CEO when looking for a new country for corps, such as a minimum and maximum employment index required, tax rates, transportation index etc.
[17:10] Xanyon: done ;)
[17:11] * Quits: justspock (webclient@ (Quit: Today is a good day to chat.)
[17:11] Laguna: We just oppose products...
[17:12] * Quits: Yankee (iamcaaloon@ (Software caused connection abort)
[17:13] Jozi: I am confused here. The ticker tape works on all worlds. I just logged in to make sure it was not broken. It is not.
[17:13] Laguna: I'm confused too... Can't help regarding the 1st question.
[17:13] Xanyon: hi
[17:13] Xanyon: er
[17:13] Xanyon: sec
[17:14] Jozi: The CEO search function was requested very long time ago. I will try to push it quickly. It is really bad we do not have it.
[17:14] Jozi: done
[17:14] Xanyon: i bought a country off Laguna
[17:14] Xanyon: and it doesn't have the ticker tape thingy
[17:14] Xanyon: :(
[17:14] Xanyon: on KB
[17:14] Jozi: you did Hah? and Lagunal sold it to you without the ticker tape?
[17:14] Xanyon: 0_o
[17:15] Laguna: Ah. I always turn off the ticker.
[17:15] Jozi: Laguna..... what did you do?
[17:15] Laguna: LMAO
[17:15] Xanyon: oh right
[17:15] * Xanyon feels stoopid now
[17:15] Xanyon: how do i get it back?
[17:15] Laguna: I was being nice and selling a nice country for cheap. o,o
[17:15] Jozi: Just joking
[17:16] Laguna: Err... Go to the country homepage and click Settings, Xanyon.
[17:16] Laguna: The ticker is called News Bar.
[17:16] Xanyon: hehe
[17:16] * Laguna sets mode: -v Xanyon
[17:16] * Laguna sets mode: +v Daconia
[17:16] Jozi: I suggest you go to the portal, turn the ticker tapes off. They will all disappear, and then turn them on again.
[17:16] Daconia: Hi Jozi..
[17:16] Daconia: I recently had a bad situation occur during a fed war on GR
[17:17] Daconia: The SC majority of who was in opposing fed, voted to ban my use of nuclear weapons then proceeded to nuke the crap out of me...this just doesn't seem realistic
[17:18] Daconia: I understand empowering the SC a bit...but that doesn't seem the correct way to go about it
[17:20] Jozi: I don't know what to say. This unfortunate but the question is what to do? remove that power?
[17:20] Laguna: NO!
[17:20] * Laguna shuts up
[17:20] Jozi: There are things to do. If your nuclear defense would be in place nothing would happen. If you fed friends would attack them with nukes that could help too.
[17:20] Daconia: I believe the way to do it is give the SC the power to prevent them from building strat real life that would be the goal..once a country has that ability...they can't magically prevent it
[17:21] Jozi: the SC can be corrupt. we could change to elected members but that is no guarantee for a better SC.
[17:22] Jozi: You suggestion could be a partial solution. It remains a risk for countries that cannot build the weapons. please put to a vote. we do read them all.
[17:22] Daconia: I'll do that...thank you
[17:23] Daconia: done
[17:23] Laguna: I love that ending.
[17:24] Laguna: I beleive 6 players should elected to the Security Council and other 6 for winning 1st place
[17:25] Laguna: If the core community of this game would go beyond 160 players, I'm certain that would stop corruption for several reasons.
[17:25] Daconia: well part of the problem I had was that a base that is only 99% destroyed can still be nuked...use NFPs to kill the base down to 1% then keep hitting it with nucs
[17:25] Laguna: Oh yeah. That needs to be fixed. In fact, we need to speak about it later on.
[17:26] Laguna: Moving on from the Security Council to... Natural Disasters!
[17:26] * Laguna sets mode: -v Daconia
[17:26] Jozi: Please explain. The last base only remain 99% max damage.
[17:26] Laguna: It can be nuked several times.
[17:27] Jozi: and what happens?
[17:27] Laguna: We are nuked. : )
[17:27] Laguna: What happens when a base is completly damaged, Jozi?
[17:27] Jozi: so .... lots of additional damage each time? of what?
[17:28] Laguna: Nuclear attacks. lol
[17:29] Laguna: A base is destroyed to 99% and it can be nuked several times. That should not be.
[17:29] * Laguna sets mode: +v Daconia
[17:29] Daconia: depopulation occurs
[17:29] Daconia: the base won't be destroyed and remains a valid target
[17:29] Daconia: so they can keep on nuking it
[17:29] Laguna: *cough*bug*cough
[17:30] Jozi: The last base does not go away. It had a technical reason. It does nothing but waits to be repaired. I did not realize it can be nuked many times but I do not see the huge problem. can you defend it with missiles?
[17:30] Daconia: nope nothing can be built there or garrisoned there
[17:30] Laguna: NO!
[17:30] Daconia: valid target you can't defend
[17:31] Jozi: lost population is indeed a big problem. I will look into preventing such attacks. Not being able to defend it is even worse. I think we can fix it easily.
[17:31] Jozi: done
[17:31] Daconia: thanks
[17:31] * Laguna sets mode: -v Daconia
[17:31] Laguna: It can be easily fixed indeed.
[17:31] Laguna: And there's no better way to fix ways than by removing them from the game.
[17:31] Laguna: Nuclear Weapons and Earthquakes should be removed from the game asap.
[17:32] * Quits: Tholan (webclient@ (Quit: Today is a good day to chat.)
[17:32] Laguna: In all my discussions, no one was capable in arguing in favor of their stay in the game.
[17:32] Laguna: Nuclear weapons prevent wars, killing the miliary side of the game.
[17:33] Laguna: Nukes that cost 3B destroy 3mil of which is worth 24GCs ~ 16T
[17:33] Laguna: Earthquakes do not bring any benefit to the game and players use it to acuse the admin of sabotaging.
[17:34] Laguna: This can all be removed from the game, saving us all time and headcahes on features that bring no benefir whatsoever,
[17:34] Laguna: dome
[17:34] Laguna: done too. :P
[17:34] Jozi: accusing the admin of something is essential so earthquakes is an easy one for us. they could blame us for more serious offenses.
[17:35] Laguna: Yet, that is no reason for why Earthquakes should stay.
[17:35] Laguna: N00bs wanted Natural Disasters in the game, they do. Those who asked for them are long.
[17:36] Laguna: Those that stayed which to get rid of this annoyance as soon as possible.
[17:36] Laguna: wish to get rid
[17:36] Jozi: we think that disasters in general should be part of the game. we have reduced their frequency and will reduce even further when other disasters are introduced.
[17:36] Laguna: Why should they stay in the first place?
[17:36] Laguna: They don't add nothing to the game.
[17:36] Laguna: This isn't a question of frequency and damage
[17:36] Jozi: sending help to others and cooperating in fighting disasters is part of the game for some.
[17:37] Laguna: This is a question of benefits, which is none.
[17:37] Laguna: Yes, I understand that, but that never occured.
[17:37] Laguna: That cooperation never gave any fruition.
[17:37] Laguna: Who cares when you hit with an earthquake unless you advertise it?
[17:37] Laguna: Cooperation can be achieved by other more efiecient means.
[17:38] Jozi: any suggestions?
[17:38] Laguna: For cooperation? : )
[17:38] Jozi: yes
[17:39] Laguna: You already mentioned them in the beginning of this game - better communication
[17:39] Laguna: That will solve any gap. The desire to be the best, to improve will solve the rest.
[17:39] Laguna: By the way, that's was very tuco-ish of you. :P
[17:40] Laguna: Just remove them, okay?
[17:40] Laguna: They add nothing worth speaking.
[17:40] Laguna: If anyone would like to speak in behalf of earthquakes... just say so.
[17:40] Jozi: yes. I know that. when someone comes or goes, the main issue for them is the people they met and they leave behind. I think we should really improve the way people can communicate, see who is on line and is open for a chat, direct contact and a window pops up with the message without the need to explicitly go to the chat room.
[17:41] Laguna: Have we forgotten the role-playing thingy in GR, by the way?
[17:41] Laguna: I think ist still working, but no one goes there... Just a case to push to awake dormant desire.
[17:42] Jozi: any more questions? I expected some fireworks and even Manny was wel behaved.
[17:43] Laguna: No... just usual crazy laguna and Treasurer
[17:43] * Laguna sets mode: +v Treasurer
[17:43] Treasurer: thx for the chat Jozi
[17:43] Treasurer: First Question: Share Market glitches are becoming more prevailant. I am losing control of a very small minority of of corporations during the Initial IPO phase. Losing shares to Investment funds and Gamemaster Corporations during the initial IPO phase. For example yesterday, I lost 45% of the shares of a FMU corp as soon as i hit the enter key to start the IPO of 15m shares. The corp only had 100m shares. I lost 47m of them in one foul swoop to Inves
[17:44] Treasurer: It really makes it hell maximising the public corps.
[17:44] Treasurer: and I cant train people withan honest heart sending them to the lions like that
[17:45] Jozi: I was nt aware of any error in there. what do you mean lost them? sold, disappeared?
[17:45] Treasurer: its frustrating and it causes people to lose interest in economics
[17:45] Laguna: Kinda like earthquakes. *cough*
[17:45] Treasurer: i have many people that want me to teach them how to do publics properly and I cant until this is fixed
[17:46] Jozi: and to my question? can you explain what happens?
[17:46] Laguna: [17:45] Jozi: I was nt aware of any error in there. what do you mean lost them? sold, disappeared?
[17:47] Treasurer: I pick out about 10-12 corps to do IPO's with....usually at 100m share corps...
[17:47] Treasurer: on average lately i lose control of 45% of at least one of the coprs during the initial ipo phase
[17:48] Treasurer: either to gamemaster corporations or investment funds before my ceo gets even one whiff of the shares that it ordered
[17:48] Laguna invited Nimz into the channel.
[17:48] Treasurer: it is happening
[17:48] Treasurer: there was a month stretch there i thought it was fixed....but it happened again yesterday
[17:48] Jozi: At IPO they sell a small percentage on the market. you mean this works for most of them and average one of the 10, is losing? selling? 45%?
[17:49] Laguna: I wanna see that movie.
[17:49] Treasurer: it sells...i get the cash, but only authorized 15m shares to sell, yet 45m sold
[17:50] Treasurer: as soon as i hit the enter key to start the ipo of 15m shares, i lost 45m
[17:50] Jozi: I understand. Is it always 45% it seems like it sells three times 15m is that the case or is it someting very different numbers?
[17:50] Treasurer: it happens occasionally
[17:50] Treasurer: 47m yesterday
[17:50] Treasurer: sometimes a dif number
[17:50] Treasurer: but usually a large chunk
[17:51] Treasurer: but it doesnt effect all the ipos
[17:52] Treasurer: i really have fallen in love with publics and its becoming a costly thing to lose control of corps before your ceos can get one share
[17:52] Jozi: this is very annoying. we have very detailed log of everything but the real detailed log showing all details of each transaction is kept for about 6 game months. if we have a log of a transaction like this, we usually find the error.
[17:52] Treasurer: i have posted before on the forum with certain instances
[17:53] Jozi: I will have an engineer look into it ASAP. If it happens again, please mail us immediately, with the name of the world, and corporation so that we will be able to check that log.
[17:53] Treasurer: it was fixed the last time i posted, i magically got my shares back
[17:54] Treasurer: i have no idea what causes it....thought it might have something to do with changing the corps from nationals to regular then ipo'ing....but thats not what i did yesterday and it happened again
[17:54] Jozi: in this case, I really need and very quick mail when it happens as we need to take action immediately before the log is gone. These logs are many Gb each day and they need to go after some time.
[17:54] Treasurer: email addy?
[17:54] Treasurer: im more than happy to help give you any instances
[17:55] * Joins: LoveMachine (ruivo_is_g@
[17:55] Treasurer: alot of people are realizing publics are very valuable, but risky. throw in the risk of losing control and it becomes not worth it
[17:56] Jozi: changing from national to state does nothing with shares. It is the IPO process that decides to sell more. It can also be the price of the shares. If it is high, it causes them to split and there might be an error in the combination of the IPO and the split. I would like to hunt it down quickly.
[17:56] Treasurer: my suggestion is to lock out investment funds on initial ipos at least for one game month
[17:56] Treasurer: that should fix everything
[17:57] Treasurer: auto investment fund orderring i mean
[17:57] Treasurer: if i manually put in an order from one of my own investment funds i want it honored
[17:57] Jozi: investment funds are in many cases the ones who buy. others must do it manually. The best thing is to fix the error if there is one there, and from what you describe, there is one.
[17:57] Treasurer: but for people that have auto investment, they should be locked out of initial ipos for the first month
[17:58] Jozi: There should be no guarantee that one of your investment funds can purchase the shares. It should be open for all.
[17:58] Treasurer: if your orders are in first they should be honored before the investment funds on automatic
[18:00] Jozi: The bug must be solved. Your preference for who is buying is a different issue. It seems that you want to sell the shares, have the corporation public, but in fact keep full control by having one of your own funds buy the shares.
[18:00] Treasurer: exactly
[18:00] Laguna: Now, good lads, can we move on?
[18:00] Laguna: Three people are on the line.
[18:00] Treasurer: i want the option to keep control of the shares if my orders are in before the investment funds on automatic
[18:00] Jozi: That is not public at all. In fact, the real fublic corporations are the ones where you own less than 25%
[18:01] Treasurer: right
[18:01] Treasurer: thats what im saying
[18:01] Treasurer: i have two ceos just under 25 and my own inv funds take up the rest under 25% each
[18:01] Treasurer: that keeps them truly public
[18:02] * Quits: WildEyes (wild_eyes@ (Connection reset by peer)
[18:02] Jozi: OK I get it but the market must remain open and do its job. I will try to find and fix the error. If you have a new case and you report it, it will help.
[18:02] Jozi: DONE
[18:02] Laguna: haha
[18:02] Treasurer: done
[18:02] Treasurer: thx
[18:02] * Laguna sets mode: +v Quastar
[18:02] * Laguna sets mode: -v Treasurer
[18:02] Quastar: Hi Jozi. There are few problems with the war engine function that I encountered.
[18:03] Quastar: Problem 1: I cannot airdrop a newly created Air Base Construction Unit (ABCU) from an
[18:03] Quastar: offensive air base previously built with an ABCU in a foreign land. It says: "Elkton
[18:03] Quastar: must be within a 100.00km range of an Offensive Military Airport before you can schedule
[18:03] Quastar: an Airdrop". One offensive military airport is just next door! This is to allow you to
[18:03] Quastar: do 'military hopping' (transfer of units from one base to the other, farther away from
[18:03] Quastar: the main nation), am I right?
[18:03] Quastar: Problem 2: I create new ABCU in a new offensive airport that I build in an ally's country. In the 'show landing forces' page, it shows the current position of my unit as within my country, even though the coordinate is in my ally's country.
[18:04] Quastar: Problem 3: In the 'allow foreign units' page, the name of presidents for each country that you allowed troops in your country is set to YOUR name. Which is weird because I don't remember conquering that country. :)
[18:04] Quastar: Addendum: To issue raised by Treasurer, I call for the ability to directly sell shares to CEO's or investment funds of choice. Like in real world. That will probably solve the problem raised beforehand.
[18:04] Quastar: And a question: Why is it that feds support for it's members are only limited to air defence in the case of an attack? Can you introduce more comprehensive support, including automatic resource sharing, or sharing of supply units, for example?
[18:04] Quastar: That's it. Hope it's fixed, if it's a glitch. :P Done.
[18:04] Jozi: You describe it in all details so I am afraid you are right. This should be easy to find and fix. thanks for the info.
[18:05] * Laguna sets mode: +v KevinHenry
[18:05] KevinHenry: Jozi - thanks for doing these chats - my question is about the new air drop feature. I assume air drops should be able to be made in ANY country, yet for me, it seems I have to pick between countries in my empire or fed.
[18:05] Laguna: I'm guessing both your issues are similar, so...
[18:05] KevinHenry: yeah...i dont think i repeated Q....
[18:06] Quastar: Yes, I agree with the issue brought up by KH
[18:06] KevinHenry: i dont see how to air drop to countries i am at war with
[18:08] Jozi: wait. I am not done with Quastar yet.
[18:08] KevinHenry: k, sorry
[18:09] Laguna: You'll see both subjects are connected with eachother.
[18:10] Jozi: Quaster: Thanks for 1,2 and 3. seem like errors. we will fix quickly and patch. direct sale of shares: may be a good idea. I will discuss here and publish on the forum what we think of it.
[18:11] Jozi: More functions for the fed: long on our list and was delayed by the work on the war engine. we would like to add more functionality. moving resources is the easiest one and we have already published some ino on it. There are more war engine functions and fed functions to to be added and we will continue this effort.
[18:12] Jozi: KevinHenry: air drop are possible in any country in your empire, fed and ones you have a war situation going on. you cannot air drop if you are not at war
[18:13] * Laguna pokes Kevin
[18:13] KevinHenry: ok....i cant find the feature to do it during war...but i look try harder :)....
[18:13] Laguna: Can you tell him where is at, Jozi?
[18:14] Quastar: some people can't find the ability to drop units during war. I thought it's a glitch too.
[18:15] Jozi: You want me to declare war now? I will also look into it overhere. we might have dropped a line on a page somewhere. I know it was tested and worked.
[18:15] Laguna: Sure. Let us see some of that GM voodoo. :p
[18:15] Jozi: I will make sure it is very clear and also in the menu. I thought it was in the menu!
[18:15] KevinHenry: i would love to declare on you....what county on LU?
[18:16] Laguna: Eeek
[18:16] * Laguna slaps Kevin with some tuna
[18:16] KevinHenry: lol
[18:16] Jozi: don't
[18:16] KevinHenry: sorry
[18:16] Jozi: lol
[18:16] KevinHenry: also:
[18:16] Laguna: You can declare on me like everybody else does.:p
[18:16] KevinHenry: i also think it would be nice if air drops and lifts were would take real days to drop and set-up an airport construction unit and then to use it to air lift military units
[18:17] Quastar: I call for the ABCU to be deployed in one game month, not 24 real hours
[18:17] * Quits: LoveMachine (ruivo_is_g@ (Quit: Love the love)
Session Close: Sat Jul 05 18:17:57 2008

Session Start: Sat Jul 05 18:17:50 2008
Session Ident: #jozichat
[18:17] * Disconnected
[18:18] * Rejoined channel #jozichat
[18:18] * Topic is 'PM Laguna to to be +v'
[18:18] * Set by Laguna on Sat Jul 05 15:10:43
[18:18] * Laguna sets mode: +o LoveMachine
[18:19] Jozi: laguna is back. I have some people here for our own -BQ and they have already set it up (good for me) so we will have to conclude...
[18:19] Laguna: hey now... :(
[18:19] Jozi: go on. I am here.
[18:19] Quastar: I'm done. THanks Jozi for the reply.
[18:20] KevinHenry: i'm done...thanks
[18:20] Laguna: I don't have any contagious disease... just some curable STDs
[18:20] Jozi: thanks for the comments.
[18:20] * Laguna sets mode: -v Quastar
[18:20] * Laguna sets mode: -v KevinHenry
[18:20] * Laguna sets mode: +v wendy1
[18:20] wendy1: on the treasurer's issue, my corps automatically lowered to 51 % control. I always issue new shares because as the corp gains value the share price should rise equalizing the loss of shares. If I issue new shares those should be the only shares being actively traded and authorized to trade publicly. The point being to give up control, at a much slower rate than if you offered a portion of your shares . . .
[18:21] wendy1: only issuing shares in time off massive debt or to avoid closure
[18:21] wendy1: or raising operating capitol
[18:22] wendy1: when you offer an ipo it should only be for a reason and only the shares you authorize
[18:22] wendy1: for example
[18:23] Jozi: You can set targets to the percentage of shares you want to keep. 51% is fine. The increase in value of the corporation because of new shares will keep the 51% at the same value but the share price can fluctuate for other reasons.
[18:23] wendy1: if i wanted to offer shares to manage risk and cost I would not want to give up 40% of the company stake because I am essentially giving up 49% of the profit
[18:24] Jozi: if you sell 40% you give up 40% of the profit.
[18:24] wendy1: corrected was a typo
[18:24] Jozi: that's OK isn't it?
[18:25] wendy1: but if I only issue 15 million shares that should be all the stake I lose , it goes to 51% automatically
[18:25] Jozi: if you go under 50% it does not mean you lose control. invetment funds will never control the corporation and they keep a lot of the shares.
[18:26] Jozi: you can change the 51% to 85% and it will not go automatically.
[18:26] wendy1: ok
[18:26] LoveMachine: When done, type Done
[18:26] wendy1: on Lagunas issues
[18:26] wendy1: . .
[18:27] wendy1: earth quakes are a real part of the world and this can be quite annoying but it adds to the authenticity of a real presidential environment
[18:28] wendy1: China for example
[18:28] Jozi: lagunal will not be happy
[18:28] wendy1: lmao
[18:28] Jozi: Laguna I mean
[18:28] wendy1: no hard feelins
[18:28] * Laguna isn't happy indeed
[18:28] wendy1: he said speak up I wouldn't mind if they were gone
[18:29] wendy1: on nukes . .
[18:30] Jozi: I agree. I would like to have a range of several types of infrequent events that require fixing and help from others. Famine is never solved in the game. many countries buy very little food and we do not measure what they really need. we measure what they are able to purchase.
[18:30] Jozi: done
[18:31] wendy1: The security council should have the ability to allow use of nukes only in instances of unlawful or unreasonable agression and should not be availabe to the common war
[18:32] * Retrieving #jozichat modes...
[18:32] Jozi: This is very hard to judge! I don't know how to write software to judge.
[18:32] * LoveMachine sets mode: -m
[18:32] LoveMachine: hahaha
[18:32] wendy1: this way they can be used more effectively as a deterent and not as a weapon of intimidation or terror or bullying of less economically viable nations, and wars of thought do no end up causing the collateral damage that happens when these weapons
[18:33] wendy1: are used
[18:33] wendy1: done
[18:33] LoveMachine: Thanks for the chat all!
[18:33] * Laguna hugs everyone
[18:33] * Laguna also shakes fist at Quastar and Xanyon
[18:34] Laguna: Can you beleive I only have blue cards?
[18:34] Xanyon: :)
[18:34] Jozi: I haver to leave you now. It was intended for two hours and time is running out on me. I just told Laguna that I will be happy to be back hete very soon. 2 or 3 weeks.
[18:34] KevinHenry: bye jozi! thanks!
[18:34] Jozi: back here I mean. bye bye and thank you all for being here.
[18:34] wendy1: bye
[18:34] * Laguna givs Jozi another piece of cake
[18:35] Laguna: I should get more speaking of which
[18:35] Jozi: thanks
[18:35] * Parts: Jozi (jossi@

Simcountry Introduction