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| Sunday, June 1, 2008 - 04:37 am |
i was talking about france bieng greedy in ww1 listen next time. O and rob u live in england u have no idea about how un patrotic america is. I dont live in germany i live in america and have u ever heard teenagers give the pledge its horrible and very sad. Hug amounts of people are against the war in iraq and take it out on the soldiers protecting are nation. Alot of anti americans in america u would be surprised.
| Sunday, June 1, 2008 - 11:38 am |
Actually, I'm UK-based. I have no intention of living with aborigines (for a start, I can't stand hot climates). However, I am sure we can maintain our current way of life without further damaging our environment. I do use a car, unless I have an alternative, and even then it is a small car - not one of these gas-guzzlers like a Hummer.
"The nazis inspired people in germany to be patrotic and love there country". I would go further than that and say that they encouraged nationalism, rather than patriotism. Here in the UK, there are plenty of patriotic people (many of whom oppose the war in Iraq, but support our troops - they rarely have any choice where to be deployed). Patriotism is, or should be, blind to who you are and all races are encouraged to feel part of the nation.
Nationalism all to often decends into racism by seeking to define the nation based on some arbitrary heritage often leading to blindness regarding faults of the state - the state's only purpose should be to preserve the heritage of its people at all and any cost.
What is there to like about the Nazis? They did manage to strengthen the German economy during the Depression and constructed an extensive network of Autobahnen (Motorways/Freeways). That wasn't to last and they ended up screwing up their economy totally in order to prolong the war.
The Holocaust: I doubt that the numbers were exaggerated. The reason the Nazis are reviled for it more than Stalin is because the Nazis deliberately targetted sections of the population that they decided were "dangerous" (including women and children) to the nation, in part to preserve white German heritage. Stalin was almost completely arbitrary and killed based on perceived threat to himself or the Communist Party. Any individual, no matter what their race, could be targetted (although in practice, there was some bias). I get the impression that the West seemed to think this was a little better as, at least in theory, an individual could escape death by keeping his or her head down. The Nazis killed Jews indiscriminently. The way the Nazis killed, effectively turning to the production line and industrialising the industry of death, also turned the West against them. Finally, after the war, the Soviet Union became so powerful that the terror Stalin unleashed on his people was probably played down somewhat. Otherwise it might have been seem as justifying a war with the Soviet Union which would have been considerably more devastating that WWII.
There have been worse massacres in history, though not what Israel is currently doing (though I condemn that too), but that does not justify the genocide commited by the Nazis. Since when did the number of people killed change the moral stance on the act? "Oh, he's a good guy, he only killed hundreds, but that bloke who killed thousands is definitely rotten to the core."
"The Nazis unified a nation". Perhaps, but a nation that had only existed since 1871, hardly a heritage stretching back for centuries.
"Hug amounts of people are against the war in iraq and take it out on the soldiers protecting are nation." Interesting typo there! Great way to promote the anti-war peeps - come protest the war and we'll give you a hug!
But seriously, here in the UK, we manage to object to the war whilst realising that our troops are not necessarily there because they want to be. Therein lies the difference between British patriotism (recognising the faults of the country), and the approach taken by some Americans (I oppose the war, therefore the country should and the soldiers should be targetted). If you are against the war, support your troops but make it clear to the leadership that they should bring them home ASAP.
| Monday, June 2, 2008 - 02:41 am |
This thread is proof one should never "feed" asshats. If you ignore him perhaps he wil choke on his own bile.
| Monday, June 2, 2008 - 09:33 am |
Agreed. I'm enjoying exercising my argumentative streak though.
Besides, my hope is that provoking the odd asshat within their own thread will stop them parachuting poop into others.
| Monday, June 2, 2008 - 09:04 pm |
Extremmly compelling zetetic but i hope u no i was talking about americans taking it out on the troops. If u in the UK dont then good for u but that wasent my point. I said that what Hitler did in the conentration camps wasent justified i was just pointing 2 the other massacres that people tend to ignore. I dont no if anyone read this but it seems i have 2 repeat myself i am a NEO NAZI. Neo means new so for u guys who havent put the 2 togther that means NEW NAZI. Hitler i beleave is a great thinker and like the fact that he technically created nazism. However the massacre of jews i dont agree with. Nazism is alot more complicated then "kill inferior races" and i can guarntee u that neo nazis arent intrested in mass genocide.
| Monday, June 2, 2008 - 09:09 pm |
Dont ignore me or u will only fuel my beleaf.I am taking into consederation what u guys are saying to me so dont think your argument is bieng wasted on deaf ears.
| Monday, June 2, 2008 - 09:53 pm |
So what distinguishes neo-Nazis from plain old Nazis? Doesn't seem to be much difference, but to be fair, I'm only going by the Wikipedia article.
So, some direct questions:
- Do you believe in freedom of and from religion?
- Do you believe in democracy?
- Do you take the word of the Bible literally?
- What are your beliefs regarding immigration and refugees (note the distinction - immigrants generally wilfully move between countries, refugees are, or should be, seeking safety from oppressive regimes)?
- You've made it clear you're no friend to gay people, but why?
- Why do you think that white people are inherently superior?
Other than the addition of "neo" to nazi, I cannot see much difference between the two. I hope that in getting some answers to these questions, I might begin to understand the difference and be better able to present my own counter-arguments.
| Monday, June 2, 2008 - 10:43 pm |
Yes i beleave in freedom of religion
No i do not beleave in a democracy- Facist
Yes i take the bible literaly- exept Noahs Ark
My beleafs when it comes to immagration is sympole- Stay in your own country ill stay in mine.
Gays- be gay if u want just dont get married thats for a man and a women and keep it to yourselves
Alot of nazis do think whites are supreior but i simply think that we need to stick to are own race.
To clear somthing up with you there are many diffrent branches in nazism. Im in a group that the name ill keep to my self but we are not right wing extremist pretty mild compared to many nazis groups.
| Thursday, June 5, 2008 - 04:02 pm |
Hello people who have read this furom and now think of me as a asshat. Im am not really a nazi i just enjoy debats and i like defendeing somthing that is wrong or evil because it makes it more challenging. No i dont hate people because of there skin.
However i still want people to post comments on this furom because i want to no your oppinon about the debat and did you think my defence was good considering i was defending somthing i dont beleave.
Thanks for your bieng good sports. And thank u zeteic for puting up such a good debat! (u won)